Hiring: Four Ways Your Interviews Can Be Better

Have you ever sat in bad interviews? These happen all the time in our churches. But it doesn’t have to be that way.

As a church, finding the right person to lead your Youth or Children’s Ministry is crucial to the spiritual growth and development of the young members of your congregation. The interview stage is one common area where churches make mistakes in their hiring process. Often it is a hiring team, made up of volunteers with perhaps a staff member or two, that is asked to host quality interviews. And even worse, they are often not prepared with the best questions, understanding of the role they are looking to fulfill, and how to interview in a professional and consistent manner.

We believe conducting effective interviews is a critical step in the hiring process to ensure you select the best candidate for the role. Here are four ideas on how your church can conduct interviews well and make a wise hiring decision.

Four Ways To Better Interviews

Clearly Define the Job Description and Expectations

Before starting the interview process, it’s essential to have a well-defined job description and clear expectations for the role of your church’s Youth or Children’s Minister. This includes outlining the position’s responsibilities, qualifications, and desired skills. Be sure to communicate this information to potential candidates before the interview so they clearly understand what the role entails. During the interview, ask specific questions about the job description to assess the candidate’s suitability for the position.

Free Interview Questions Download

Assess Cultural Fit and Passion for Ministry

In addition to evaluating the candidate’s qualifications and experience, assessing their cultural fit with your church’s values, mission, and vision is essential. Youth and Children’s Ministers play a vital role in shaping the spiritual lives of young people and their families, so it’s crucial to find someone who shares your church’s beliefs and values.

Ask questions that help you understand the candidate’s personal faith journey, passion for ministry, and alignment with your church’s core values. Assessing cultural fit and passion for ministry will ensure that the candidate is qualified and a good fit for the unique needs of your church’s Youth or Children’s Ministry.

Utilize a Structured Interview Process

Having a structured interview process is crucial to ensure consistency and fairness in evaluating candidates. Develop a list of relevant interview questions that assess the candidate’s skills, experience, and suitability for the role. (We’ve created a free resource with some of the best questions you can ask in your interview.)

Consider including behavioral-based questions that ask the candidate to provide specific examples of how they have handled situations in the past. This can help you assess their problem-solving skills, leadership style, and ability to handle challenging situations that may arise in a Youth or Children’s Ministry setting. Utilize a scoring system or evaluation rubric to assess each candidate’s responses and qualifications objectively. (Did you know we help our Hiring Services clients develop their rubric and teach them to use it effectively? We’d love to help you in your search!)

Involve Multiple Stakeholders in the Interview Process

Involving multiple stakeholders in the interview process can provide a well-rounded perspective on the candidate’s suitability for the role. This can include members of the church leadership team, current Youth or Children’s Ministry volunteers, parents, and other relevant staff members. Each stakeholder can bring a unique perspective and evaluate the candidate based on their specific area of expertise or stage of life. Collaboratively discussing the strengths and weaknesses of each candidate can help your church make a more informed hiring decision.

Conducting interviews for your church’s Youth or Children’s Minister is a critical step in the hiring process. By clearly defining the job description, assessing cultural fit and passion for ministry, utilizing a structured interview process, and involving multiple stakeholders, your church can conduct interviews well and make a wise hiring decision that aligns with your church’s vision and values. Remember to pray for guidance and discernment throughout the process, seeking God’s wisdom in selecting the right person to lead your church’s Youth or Children’s Ministry.



Five-Minute Mentoring: Knowing Your Audience

The Making Sense of Ministry podcast is on all major platforms, including SpotifyApple Podcast, and Audible.

In this episode of Five-Minute Mentoring, we explore knowing your audience and why it may be one of your best ways to gain respect from both parents and church members while creating stronger relationships with young people.

Resources For You
Youth & Children’s Ministry Job Board
Youth and Children’s Ministry Certifications
Youth or Children’s Ministry Coaching

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Find the Youth Ministry Institute on FacebookInstagramTwitter, or Linkedin.
Find Brian on FacebookInstagramTwitter, or Linkedin.
Find Kirsten on FacebookInstagram, or Linkedin.

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SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Kirsten Knox:  00:08

Welcome to the Making Sense of ministry podcast. The podcast designed to help you lead well in your ministry transform lives and impact generations. I’m Kirsten Knox here with another five minute mentoring episode. So today I’m here with you talking about how knowing your audience can greatly impact your credibility as a leader. Being intentional about knowing your audience is one sure way to help you gain credibility with those you lead, and not knowing your audience will cause you to lose credibility fast.

Kirsten Knox:  00:41

Have you ever wondered how you could gain more credibility with those you lead? Maybe often you feel like parents or your supervisor is second guessing your decisions. Or maybe you wonder why often it feels like you aren’t being treated like a professional. Perhaps you have a credibility problem. Or maybe you are newer in your position and looking for ways to gain credibility with those you lead. First, you want to understand the different audiences you serve.

In ministry, you serve a number of audiences and generations, it’s easy to focus on the primary audience you serve and forget about the other audiences. For example, if you are a children’s minister, it is easy to focus on building credibility and trust with children and their parents. If you only focus on these two audiences, you will always struggle with gaining credibility within the church and the community.

Kirsten Knox:  01:38

As the children’s Minister you have multiple audiences you serve. Of course, children and parents are two of your audiences. But there are more the congregation, church leadership, key influencers in the church, other staff members in the community are important audiences to remember. Think of it this way. As the leader of the ministry, you are responsible for telling the narrative of the ministry to each of these audiences. When you do this, you’ll notice your credibility increases.

I wonder for you, which audience oftentimes gets neglected? As you ponder that question, create one or two ways you can tell the narrative of your ministry to that audience this month. Once you find the best ways to communicate with each audience, it’s not a one and done, repetition is key. Once you identify your audiences in your context, the second thing you want to do is adjust your communication style for each audience. In communication, one size doesn’t fit all.

Kirsten Knox:  02:40

When you are sending a message to those in your professional setting, through email, text or promotional material. Be mindful of your audience. This is going to help you determine a couple key things. It will help you determine the style in which you write and the level of formality, it will change based on your audience. If you have texted a student lately, you may have wondered when one sentence starts and the other ends. If you’re like me, maybe you’ve had to read it a couple of times, because it is common for them not to use punctuation or capital letters. If you’re writing a student, you can match their style. However, if you are texting an adult use punctuation and capital letters. This may seem like a small thing, but it will increase your credibility and raise the level of professionalism of your ministry. Effective leaders adjust their style of communication per audience.

Kirsten Knox:  03:39

Not only will knowing your audience help you determine how you communicate, you also want to adjust how you dress. Some days you’re playing on the ground with kids or outside play messy games with students. Other days you’re in the office working and having meetings with your coworkers and supervisor. And then other days you find yourself working as you attend school plays, sporting events and more. And then on other working days you are at worship on Sunday mornings.

When I first started in youth ministry, I remember wondering as the leader how to dress at these different functions. I was young and leading adults twice my age, I knew how I dress would impact my credibility. This was my first professional job and I was really trying to discern how casual or formal I needed to dress. I had a mentor say to me when you are trying to decide the appropriate dress attire for different functions, dress equal to those you are meeting with. That makes sense to me. And it helped me many times in the last 20 plus years of ministry, what you wear, communicate something, be intentional about what you want to communicate.

Kirsten Knox:  04:50

At a youth minister say to me once they just treat me like a big kid, meaning the adults in the church. I asked a few questions to help me understand more about what he was experiencing in that conversation I realized he lived in shirts and T shirts. I encouraged him to adjust his attire based on the setting and audience. He noticed when he made this change, people experienced him differently and his credibility grew within the church. Leaders who gain credibility and build trust within their ministries are intentional about knowing their audience and making adjustments accordingly. Well, friends that’s it for today’s five-minute mentoring episode. I hope we’ve helped you make sense of this thing we call ministry.

On Drama In Ministry | Season 4: Episode 7

Drama in ministry - fighting like cats and dogs

The Making Sense of Ministry podcast is on all major platforms, including SpotifyApple Podcast, and Audible.

Have you ever experienced drama in your ministry? No matter the age group we serve, there will be drama. In this episode, Kirsten and Brian discuss the drama they have experienced in ministry and how they handle it.

Resources Mentioned
Youth & Children’s Ministry Job Board
Youth and Children’s Ministry Certifications
Youth or Children’s Ministry Coaching

Join Our Facebook Group
Subscribe To Content Filled Emails

Find the Youth Ministry Institute on FacebookInstagramTwitter, or Linkedin.
Find Brian on FacebookInstagramTwitter, or Linkedin.
Find Kirsten on FacebookInstagram, or Linkedin.


SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Brian Lawson:  00:00

Welcome back to another episode of The Making Sense Ministry podcast. This is the podcast designed to help you lead well in your ministry, transform lives and impact generations. I’m Brian back here with Kirsten. And we are going to talk about something that I know that we all love. But before we get there, my oldest daughter is in drama at school. And so they are getting ready for their play. And she’s in middle school. And so I am the typical dad. And what I mean by that is I pick her up on Wednesdays after her drama practice. And I always say so, are you feeling dramatic?

Kirsten Knox:  00:36

She loves that. I bet.

Brian Lawson:  00:38

The first time she laughed, and every time since she said, What does that even mean? So of course, now, I say that every time and I always will say that. Because you know, that’s what I’m supposed to do.

Kirsten Knox:  00:51

That’s because you’re like, I don’t know if you think this is funny, but it makes me laugh and that is valuable.

Brian Lawson:  00:57

And making you feel uncomfortable makes it even better for me. So I’m just gonna keep doing it.

Kirsten Knox:  01:02

I’m gonna entertaining myself.

Brian Lawson:  01:05

So today, Kirsten we’re going to talk all about drama, not the acting kind. But the drama that we see with young people sometimes, you know, whether that’s in their relationships, or in a small group, where people are fighting, and they can’t get along, whatever it might look like, because we all know you’ve been around long enough you’ll see it. There’s drama sometimes. Yes. So how do we as the ministry leaders navigate that with the people in the middle of the drama, the people around the drama, you know, the collateral damage, if you will? And how do we re focus them? So that’s our topic for today.

Kirsten Knox:  01:46

You know, just a small topic, and this is small.

Brian Lawson:  01:49

That not many people deal with I’m sure, I’m sure.

Kirsten Knox:  01:51

Maybe you’ve dealt with this. Maybe it’s rare.

Brian Lawson:  01:55

Oh, so the last ministry that I was at for quite a while, it wasn’t long after I started, I’d say I was there probably like four months. And I had to have a meeting with the junior and senior girls, small group, to try to help them reconcile enough to navigate the rest of the school year, because they just couldn’t get along. And the root of the problem within this particular situation was one boy had dated like four of them.

Kirsten Knox:  02:26

Listen, when you were thinking that I’m like, listen, I had that it was exact same thing. And my I was thinking about as you were talking about that, that’s hilarious. I’m like date outside the ministry.

Brian Lawson:  02:36

Yes. One boy had dated like for them. And it didn’t help that he was really popular in school. He was really popular in the ministry, like, everywhere he went, I mean, that’s just the kind of person he is anyways, like, he’s very charismatic, people enjoy being around him. So that didn’t help. And then they all didn’t like each other because of the whole situation. So here I am, way past this stage in life, never myself ever been. I don’t think I’m very dramatic person anyways. And so how do I navigate that whole situation?

Kirsten Knox:  03:06

Yes. So Brian, we’re dying to know, what did you do?

Brian Lawson:  03:09

I don’t know that I navigated it very well. I’m not sure. I mean, in truth, we met, I met with our small group leaders and the girls, and we let them share what they were experiencing, and their frustrations and their anger and their hurts, too. And so I listened. I wrote it all down, probably still have it sitting in a file somewhere. I don’t know. Maybe it’s still at the church filing cabinet there. But that was it. That was it. We listened. And then I think I may have pushed them if they could hear each other a little better. Like, can you hear one another? And I’m not asking you to be best friends. Like, I’m not asking you to, you know, to do everything together. I’m just asking you can you be kind to one another? So that’s essentially what I did. I don’t know if that was good or bad. I will say the small group never really functioned great.

Kirsten Knox:  03:56

Yeah, it’s hard in that space, right? You’re like, yes, great, may not be the measuring stick just to function.

Brian Lawson:  04:04

Oh, Grant, you this was like 12 years ago, this was several years ago, I don’t know if I even would have set up the small group that way now. But that’s what was set up when I got there at the time. So.

Kirsten Knox:  04:13

Anytime you’re dealing with drama, I think it’s important to create space for them to listen to one another, or just to be heard whether that’s one on one, which happens probably a lot with us that someone is having some drama. So we spend time with him one on one listening, but also given the opportunity to hear from one another and set that pathway. How do we want to be if we’re all choosing to be in this group? How do we want to be here? What do we want this experience to be like for ourselves? And what do we want this experience to be like for each other? So then what are we going to commit to make that happen? Right, like I think those are life skills. I tell our students a lot. We are practicing relationships here. This is a safe place for you to practice, which means there are times you’re gonna get it right. And there are times you’re gonna get it wrong, but I think that opportunity like Brian put them around and listening. What a great way to practice conflict.

Brian Lawson:  05:01

Yeah, it was uncomfortable for me. I’m gonna tell you just, I was like, I don’t even know what I’m doing. Like, I wanted to be like, listen, the boys moved on from all four of you. So let’s just move on, because he’s not dating any of you.

Kirsten Knox:  05:14

You notice the boys aren’t having conflict.

Brian Lawson:  05:19

Which, of course, is not very empathetic of me. Hence the reason I did it, but I wanted to say that.

Kirsten Knox:  05:24

Yeah, I did pull the one, one of my boys side and I was like, Can you not date another girl in the youth ministry, like after the fourth one, I feel like there’s probably girls at your school. It would be great for you to date. He just laughed. I might get I’m not really teasing. And then he ended up marrying one. Later, that wasn’t even a part of the four was like his best friend in high school. And now most of them are friends and hang out together. I’m like, it’s crazy. Maturity looks good on all of us.

Brian Lawson:  05:57

As funny as we say, girls, but let’s intrude boys are very dramatic, too. It just looks. It looks, you know, and usually for them, it’s at least my experience has been, they’re throwing a basketball at someone who made them angry. Yes. Or they’re trying to wrestle him to the ground or somehow show that they’re tougher than them. Which is really their expression of being dramatic. Yeah.

Kirsten Knox:  06:16

Yeah, it’s true. I’m like, we both have it. It just looks different. Yeah. tends to look I mean generalizations but tend to look different.

Brian Lawson:  06:25

So Kiersten Have you had any of those encounters particular that you can think of in ministry or, or the training.

Kirsten Knox:  06:30

I had one that was you’re talking about similar, and then I, we had two mission trips back to back that were awful. And I remember coming back, same, basically, same difficulties, and the some of the same students who had also been part of that drama with a boyfriend. So now we’re spending a week away with each other. I mean, I was like, I don’t know if I want to do this anymore. This is awful. But we came back. And I’m like, Well, I guess we’re having a parent’s meeting, which is not typical to do afterwards. And set up a very, there’s the things you develop afterwards, because you’ve needed to, and then like now we have a code of conduct for how we are going to be here.

And what I really wanted parents to know is when that is broken, what are the steps so that they were aware of that because I almost hate to send kids home, and I’ve only done it one time. So I try hard not to do that. But I also recognized in this space, we were probably that was probably going to happen. So how do I on the front end set that up that parents recognize this is what we’re going to do and know that step. So we put in a three step program, like three steps of how we would deal with conflict. And that was hard to be able to do.

And truthfully I want to handle I have parents oftentimes say to me, because I have a couple guys who are just, I say they feel deeply. And they don’t know what to do with that. Like, they don’t know how to manage that. And a couple of their parents are always concerned that they’re a problem. And like they’re not a problem. They feel deeply like, and they don’t know what to do with those emotions. So we’re gonna work through it.

But my hope is that we do it in such a way here that I don’t have to, like, I’m not calling their parents and telling them that most of the time, right, because I want to be able to deal with it and to move on. And for it to be a place where that happens. But yeah, I’m like when you get a group that they’ve had a lot of conflict, it’s hard. This is what I said to the pastor when I had that happen. I was like, listen, in four years, they’re gone, I will outlive them.

Brian Lawson:  08:28

And that is always the answer.

Kirsten Knox:  08:30

Like, listen, I outlive them because the youngest, I think in that group that was having the conflict was a freshman. I’m like, four years. That’s the thing here.

Brian Lawson:  08:38

Now, Kristen. Are you saying that you’ve said you would wait out a young person?

Kirsten Knox:  08:43

I did. I did. I was like this, I called him. I would not say this publicly. Well, I guess I’m getting ready to but to them at that time, this was years ago. But I would come the mean girls, and like we have the mean girls in our group. And I hate that. And I’m like so we you know, you do the things you have the meanings, you set the end, at the end of the day, I will be here after you. And then many of them came back and volunteered with me. Like when they were college age and young adults, which was hilarious to me because they would get mad at some of the behavior that they did.

Brian Lawson:  09:14

Which is often the case, right? We usually get most upset with the things that we’re terrible at. Not always, but often. I feel like the thing that annoys you the most you probably lead me to look yourself because it’s probably there somehow.

Kirsten Knox:  09:27

Yeah, I was like, yeah, that’s rough.

Brian Lawson:  09:33

Hey, friends, are you currently serving in a church as a youth or children’s minister, perhaps a family minister and you want to grow in your leadership, gain some new skills and build confidence? Well, we at the youth ministry Institute offer a certification program both for youth and children’s ministers, and this is designed to help those of you who are already serving to accelerate both your leadership skills and your understanding of ministry. It’s a cohort based program, that starts twice a year. And so we are currently recruiting new students to join the next cohort. So if you’re interested, reach out to us at yminstitute.com. And now back to the podcast.

Brian Lawson:  10:16

So thinking about drama. So I’ve also seen it happen among small group leaders like the actual adults, themselves, which that one always upset me the most, because I’m like, you’re the adult here, like you’re trying to mentor young people, and yet you yourselves can’t get along. So that always frustrated me the most. And I have since learned that even if you’re 85, it’s still there. Like the dramas still there, like the potential for it.

So thinking about that, do you think kind of real quick, we could clarify some things to help somebody navigate drama once it’s occurred? And then I’m wondering, are there things we could do ahead of time to minimize its potential impact, or maybe even stop from happening in first place? Let’s start first with his dramatic drama, the drama has already happened. They’re dramatic. There’s conflict among a small group or a group of young people? How do we navigate that?

Kirsten Knox:  11:11

I think the first one is you want to be curious, ask questions, and give them space to talk into process, how they’re feeling. And to be empathetic to that I can empathize with the hurt and how you’re feeling and not validate how you acted. And I think that is important to be able to do. And I would also say to get on their level, like physically, like, if they’re sitting you sit, if they’re standing, you stand like not. It’s a power position, if they’re sitting and you’re standing and talking to them. So I would get where they are physically and have that conversation. So it feels back and forth.

Brian Lawson:  11:46

Well, I think that’s always true, right? That’s always a good posture to take. And, you know, like when you’re working with, with a child who’s seven, like, I’m gonna get down, and I’m going to be right at eye level with them if I can, because that’s meaningful. that’s meaningful. Yeah. So the listening part is really important and listening well. And I liked that you add listening without also like, for you what words you use for basically not validating that their response was okay. Like, you’re not saying that that was an okay response. But you’re gonna listen to them. And so where’d that come from? Like, what happened? Tell me how you got to that point, you know, what’s hurting you the most, or what makes you the most angry.

Kirsten Knox:  12:21

I guess, I think children and teenagers, they come with you, whatever they’ve already experienced that day, right? They don’t come to you on if it’s evening or even morning with a clean slate. They’ve picked up whatever they have experienced that day. And so some of that really could just have nothing to do with what was happening. That was just the last straw, right? So to be curious, and ask those questions have to be able to say another thing I oftentimes ask after we process what’s happened, I want to help them differentiate between, it’s okay to be angry, it’s not okay to throw a ball at someone like both are true.

But also, the thing that I’ve learned that’s been helpful is to be able to say at the end, what do you need from me? How can I help you? And I think that’s important in some students, children, we’ve created different things. So when you get angry, what do you need to do, and that can be looked different than the next kid or the next student. So creating something like that allows them to really address their individual needs, and for them to feel empowered, because they’re then creating the solution being a part of the solution process, like, what do I need to do when I feel this way?

Brian Lawson:  13:27

Yeah. And I think listening to both parties, assuming there’s two sides to this that’s going on and try to listen as neutrally as possible. And then I think, at times, it is appropriate for the status drama between two people, for the two people to meet with you, and maybe another leader, maybe their small group leader or something, to talk through it, and to guide the conversation in a healthy way, where they’re not lashing out at the other person. They’re saying, your help, you’re teaching them how to say, like, I’m feeling this way, when this happens, then, you know, you’re a terrible person. You did that. Yeah, you know.

So like, if you can sit down and have them have a healthy conversation with one another. And I say I emphasize healthy, because I have also seen this done poorly, where the person is essentially attacking the other and being a bully to the other. And then the other person walks out just now destroyed even more like that’s not healthy. So you as a leader have to go into the conversation, ready to place the boundaries and to stop it if it turns negative immediately. Not to wait.

Kirsten Knox:  14:32

I yeah, I would say if it gets bad, right, you’re like, we thought we set this up? Well, it’s not. I think it’s okay to stop it. Right. And to stop the conversation. Say, obviously, we need a little bit more time before each of us is ready to engage in this conversation. And I’ll just shut that down. Like I’ve just been done. You know, just because you started doesn’t mean you have to finish that conversation is to be able to exit it.

Brian Lawson:  14:53

Yeah. And there’ll be maybe times that that conversation just isn’t appropriate. That just isn’t good to have. It’s not healthy for the people and that may be So and maybe you tried to help them, create some space between them and allow them to process what has happened as well. So there is times for that. And then, you know, at some point time, maybe you’ve evolved the parents, if it’s gotten to a certain level, the parents need to know what’s going on, too.

Kirsten Knox:  15:14

So my dad always used to tell us, we had to fight fair, I hated that when he said, that was just an eye language, right? You can’t just blame. You can’t blame your brother for everything. I’m like, Well, maybe that’s fair. He’s like you, but I statements, you have to fight fair.

Brian Lawson:  15:30

Yeah. So I also think this also highlights why it’s important to call parents or like, talk to parents about positive things, too. So like, ahead of time, hopefully, you’ve already like called a parent to brag on their kid or say, hey, guess what your kid did. This was just so great. So that way, when you call about something that’s not so positive, you already have somewhat of a relationship with them. They don’t think that you’re just this person who’s looking for all the bad things in their kid or something. Right. So hopefully, you’ve done some of that ahead of time. So that brings me to let’s go to, are there ways we can minimize trauma or reduce its impact ahead of time? before it occurs?

Kirsten Knox:  16:04

Yeah, I would say one of the important things is to set the expectation, like, how are we going to be when we are here, and that that is clear for all ages, that they understand, here’s who we’re going to be when we are here, kids and students, when they know the expectation oftentimes lean into the expectation. So oftentimes, when we’ve had behavior that is different than the first question, I asked myself, Si, have I done a good job? And is that clear, right, of being able to say, here’s the expectation, and being able to do that, I think that is part of the first step.

Brian Lawson:  16:37

Yeah, the question that comes to my mind, then, too, that I’ve seen where I’ve seen people get this wrong, is how do you then communicate who we’re going to be? And what I mean by how do we get this wrong, there’s one church I know of, in particular, who they have a giant wall, when you walk up the steps into the room. And it’s like a hallway before you get to them at a big wall. And instead of making that wall, like images of young people having a great time or, you know, positive, they painted on the wall letter painting of like the nose of the floor, no, this no that no this, like, that was a terrible way to communicate that.

And clearly the person who made the decision had no, and it wasn’t the youth person that made that decision, they had no understanding of how to work with young people. And they had no understanding of how to communicate a positive message versus a negative message. So that’s not a way to do that. So like communicating the positive of what we’re going to be, you know, these are like the core values that you live into, you’re going to communicate that to your leaders, communicate that to your student leaders, you’re gonna communicate that inmate statements the way that you make maybe in from stage or in front of people, or during small group, like, you know, hey, we’re gonna go to small group. And we’re going to listen deeply to one another, because every person in our group has something to offer, and we’re excited to hear from them. So when you go, let’s all listen really well to each other and come back and share one thing from your group that your group got out of it. Right. So that is a positive way of saying we’re gonna listen to each other.

Kirsten Knox:  18:02

The other part that you did, which is helpful is then in that you communicated the Why? Why does that have value? Right? Because I’ll lean into that if I understand and particularly students and children understand the why, like, why is that helpful? I want to do I want people to listen to me, so I want to listen to others. So I think both of that, give your how we’re going to be positive. And then why, like, why does it matter?

Brian Lawson:  18:27

Yeah, yep. We’re about out of time. Any last thoughts Kristen? Before we wrap this one up.

Kirsten Knox:  18:32

My last one would be I would nip it in the bud quick. Like I think sometimes we let it prolong too long, because we’re unsure of how to handle it. Or if it’s worth being handled, like do I need to step in? And I would say it gets harder the longer it goes. So if there is drama, or if there’s disruptive behavior, to have conversations with them quickly.

Brian Lawson:  18:53

Yeah. Yeah. And the only thing I’d say is, it’s not a terrible idea to put it in writing. Yeah, like I love handbooks in ministries, not because you need to have a handbook to be formal and everything. But it lays out expectations upfront as to give you something to handle parents and families that says, hey, we take ourselves seriously here. And so this is who we’re going to be. So I love it in writing, to if you can do that ahead of time. So, friends, if drama is in your ministry, I promise you it’s also in ours, as well, and everybody around us, and so we have to choose how we’re going to respond to that.

And so there’s some choice in the post response, but there’s also maybe some proactive things we can do ahead of time to help minimize the trauma. So if you have a young person in your family who’s in drama, the next time they get in your in your car after drama, practice, make sure you ask them. If they are feeling dramatic today. I’m sure they’ll appreciate that. They will.

All right, friends, that’s all we got for you. Until next time, I hope we helped you make sense of this thing we call ministry.

Five-Minute Mentoring: On Transparency And Oversharing |Season 4: Episode 6

transparency and oversharing on this episode of the five minute mentorinng

The Making Sense of Ministry podcast is on all major platforms, including SpotifyApple Podcast, and Audible.

In this episode of Five-Minute Mentoring, we explore the concept of transparency in ministry, the danger of oversharing, and why these are important concepts to apply to your leadership and ministry.

Resources Mentioned
Youth & Children’s Ministry Job Board
Youth and Children’s Ministry Certifications
Youth or Children’s Ministry Coaching

Join Our Facebook Group
Subscribe To Content Filled Emails

Find the Youth Ministry Institute on FacebookInstagramTwitter, or Linkedin.
Find Brian on FacebookInstagramTwitter, or Linkedin.
Find Kirsten on FacebookInstagram, or Linkedin.


Show Transcript

Intro:  00:00

Youth Ministry Institute original podcast

Brian Lawson:  00:08

Welcome to the Making Sense Ministry Podcast. The podcast designed to help you lead well in your ministry transform lives and impact generations. I’m Brian Lawson here with a special episode.

You know, for nearly 20 years, we’ve been coaching and training individuals and youth and now children’s ministry. And so we’ve decided to share some of that knowledge with you, some of the knowledge that our coaches share with our clients. Between the releases of our regular episodes, we will be sharing what we are calling five minute mentoring episodes. And so today, I’m here with you for our very first five minute mentoring. So welcome, and I’m glad you’re here.

Brian Lawson:  00:46

In this episode, we’re going to talk about transparency in ministry. But not just transparency of the ministry, which is important, especially if you want parents and those in the community to believe in and trust you and your leaders. I’m talking about transparency as a leader. Yeah, you the leader, we’re putting you on the hot seat.

I wonder, do you find it difficult to be transparent with those in your ministry. For some of us, this comes easy, maybe even too easy. There are those of us who fall into the oversharing trap. We share anything with anyone, which in some ways is not bad. But in the wrong context, it can be detrimental to you as a leader, it can derail the ministry, and potentially cause damage to young people and their families.

Brian Lawson:  01:38

So let’s talk first about oversharing.

Oversharing can look like an attempt to gain sympathy. You’re tired, perhaps overworked, maybe your Tesla doesn’t drive itself well enough yet, no matter what it is sharing to gain sympathy becomes a selfish act. There are spaces and places you needed to share these things, perhaps with a friend or a counselor, a mentor, coach, but not with the young people you serve, not at least in an attempt to gain sympathy. And we got to be honest with ourselves about this one, we have to really look inward and say, Are we doing this to gain sympathy.

Brian Lawson:  02:17

The second form that oversharing can look like is sharing with young people without regard to their physical, emotional, social, intellectual and spiritual development. We probably don’t need to share our struggles on getting a mortgage, or dealing with health insurance companies to a sixth grader. It is just not going to connect. And there are absolutely some of areas of our lives that we need to use great caution and wisdom when we share. Failing to recognize the age and developmentally appropriateness of your sharing can and will lead to upset parents, you better expect some phone calls.

Brian Lawson:  02:56

The last one I’m going to talk about today on oversharing is one that I’ve heard said before that you, “still own the story.” What that means is you’re going through a personal crisis, you’re right in the middle of it, perhaps you can’t share without breaking down.

So here are some thoughts to ponder. Are you at a place where you can share coherently? Have you had time to reflect on God’s movement in those spaces? Can you identify your successes or failures in the challenging season? You see when we are still in the middle of a painful situation, are sharing with young people like likely won’t achieve what we had hoped? Yes, you will gain sympathy, perhaps even some relationship equity. But it will not be healthy for the young person spiritual development.

Yeah, we can still ask for prayers and lean on those around us. But being careful not to overshare when we’re right in the middle of something is very important. We need to think carefully about whether we are an oversharer or not. If you are not sure if you’re an overshare. Ask those around you find somebody you trust that can be they’ll be brutally honest with you. And maybe they’ll tell you if you’re an overshare.

Brian Lawson:  04:15

But now in this episode, we’re really focusing on transparency, and healthy transparency is important. At the Youth Ministry Institute, we believe that is critical that we are transparent as leaders. Transparency will help us gain trust with those that we serve. And this trust will be an important tool to have as we seek to help young people follow Jesus. On some level, when we talk about transparency, what we’re really talking about is authenticity. Are you authentic with the young people and families in your ministry.

One definition I read recently on authenticity says that it’s being brave enough to be yourself and genuine enough to live according to your values. As youth and children’s ministers it will be important that You are authentic and sharing appropriate portions of your life. Your volunteers need to see that your family is real, or your home isn’t always perfectly clean. You young people need to hear about times that you have wrestled with your faith. They need to know that you’ve had moments of doubt. The people in the ministry you serve, need to know that you are not a pious robot who gets their faith right every moment of every day. They need to see the great moments and the challenging ones.

Brian Lawson:  05:32

Being authentic and transparent as a leader in age appropriate ways will help you gain trust. Trust in relationships, trust within your team of volunteers or student leaders. Trust within the staff of your church, and trust with families. This trust will help you as you seek to move people forward in their faith. So as you serve in ministry, may ask yourself, what of my life can I share today with those around me, not for sympathy, or to gain something for myself, but in a way that is helpful to others. If you want to make a significant impact in the lives of young people, you need to be a transparent and authentic leader. You need to be the one that shares their life appropriately so that people you serve can see that faith can actually be lived out in a normal person’s life.

Brian Lawson:  06:25

Friends, that’s all I’ve got for you today in this five minute mentoring episode. As always, I hope we’ve helped you make sense of this thing we call ministry.

Outro:  06:36

To learn more, how we might guide you towards success and youth or children’s ministries, head over to yminstitute.com

A Few Thoughts On Discouragement in Youth Ministry and Children’s Ministry | Season 4: Episode 5

You can find the Making Sense of Ministry podcast on all major platforms, including SpotifyApple Podcast, and Audible.



In truth, we all face discouragement at times. So what do we do about it? How do you handle discouragement? And will it defeat you? In this episode, Brian and Kirsten discuss a few thoughts on discouragement in youth ministry and children’s ministry. 

Resources Mentioned
Youth & Children’s Ministry Job Board
Youth and Children’s Ministry Certifications
Youth or Children’s Ministry Coaching

Join Our Facebook Group
Subscribe To Content Filled Emails

Find the Youth Ministry Institute on FacebookInstagramTwitter, or Linkedin.
Find Brian on FacebookInstagramTwitter, or Linkedin.
Find Kirsten on FacebookInstagram, or Linkedin.


Show Transcript

Brian Lawson:  00:02

Hey friends, welcome back to the Making Sense of Ministry podcast. This is the podcast designed to help you lead well in your ministry, transform lives and impact generations. I’m Brian Lawson back again with Kirsten Knox, hey Kirsten.

Kirsten Knox:  00:13

Hey, everyone. Hey, Brian.

Brian Lawson:  00:15

So today we’re going to talk about something that I think everyone in ministry, probably, whether it’s youth, children, family, or any level of ministry deals with, and I know I dealt with on a on a, an all transparency a semi regular basis. So today, we’re going to talk about discouragement in ministry. Where does it come from? You know, what is it? How does it impact us? And what do we do to get past it? So I don’t know about you Kirsten. But I think a lot of people who face discouragement, sometimes maybe give up too early?

Kirsten Knox:  00:51

Yes. Yeah, I think so. And I don’t think you’ll always expect it. Like I think the first couple times that you feel discouraged. You wonder, is there something wrong? Am I doing something wrong? And I’m like, I have felt discouragement on the regular. So I think that happens often.

Brian Lawson:  01:08

Yeah, I don’t know about you. But I know a lot of Wednesday’s programs. Our main program was on Wednesdays, we had Sunday stuff. But our main programs were always Wednesdays, I would go home, and I would relax on the couch eating my Chipotle. And that whole night, the rest of the night. I’m thinking it’s time to quit. I’m done. Like tomorrow, I’m quitting. And then maybe Thursday morning. I’m I think that for a little while you know, obviously I did it. But boy, I should have thought about it a whole lot. That’s something you’ve experienced?

Kirsten Knox:  01:42

Yeah. I think yes. Oftentimes, I think I would say, I’m not so sure about this anymore. Like that was kind of my like, I think maybe I need to process this. But oftentimes, which is ironic, but oftentimes for me, too, it was after going home after our main programming, and feeling that because in that moment, it didn’t look like everything doesn’t look like the way I would like it to look like. Yeah. And there’s for me, there’s discouragement in that space.

Brian Lawson:  02:11

Yeah. I don’t know if when I think back on my own, I’m not sure if it was as much that it wasn’t where I wanted it, or I didn’t like something as much as it was. I don’t know, can I continue to carry this weight? That’s I think that’s what it was for me. Like, can I do this again? And also, I mean, it is fair to say though, sometimes kids would upset you or disappoint you, or volunteers. And then to say, well, can I retrain them again? Or can I redirect them again? Or, like, or someone left and I have to find a replacement? You know, those kinds of things? I don’t know. That’s what.

Kirsten Knox:  02:56

Yeah, never ending. You’re like, I’m still there. Once again, we’re doing this again, like whatever that is finding the new volunteer. Helping having similar conversations. Yeah, I can see that it is heavy. I think sometimes we don’t talk about that either. There’s a heaviness to leaving ministry. That until you do it, you don’t always recognize it. And then I don’t think we always know what to do with it. Is that okay, is that normal? And I would say it is normal. We all feel that heaviness. Yeah, that’s part of it.

Brian Lawson:  03:27

Absolutely. You were just saying before we got on? I mean, is this something you’ve faced recently? Or?

Kirsten Knox:  03:33

I know I told you Yes. Because I’m like, Well, this is ironic, because I just felt discouraged as our main programming night currently, is Monday night. So I was leaving Monday nights. And I thought, ah, this is I think, well, here’s here is this, there are core values that I have. And when we have nights, we have nights where I feel like we have missed the mark and those core values. That’s discouraging to me. And so I think that I mean, I want to have a ministry where there’s some, we negotiate, we work together, right? There’s this give and take with students.

But there are a couple things that I’m not willing to give up on. And that is how we treat one another in small groups when someone shares something of value. And so I have some middle school boys and girls, it’s a middle school group, but they’re mostly boys who have gotten in the habit that the only way they know how to communicate is like picking and poking at each other. And I think, right, they’re middle schoolers, they’re learning how to communicate with their friends, but that’s like, the only way they communicate.

And I’m like, yeah, there’s a space for that. But when someone shares something in a small group, which, you know, you’re like, the gym happens, someone shares something, you’re like, let’s hold on to this moment. And then when that making fun happens in that space, and I don’t think they do it out of like, being mean, but it sure doesn’t encourage people to have the courage to share things that happen in their life.

Brian Lawson:  04:54

Right. And these are middle schoolers. These are middle schoolers.

Kirsten Knox:  04:57

Yes. So I had to get we had have a little bit of firmness last night about who we are going to be and how we’re going to each other in this space in this time, and sometimes I just feel like I think we’ve got late nights. We do really good at that. But like, We’re here again, like, so there’s this discouragement, I’m like, okay, but then I’m like, here we are, we’re gonna work. We’re gonna work at this. And I’m like, I’m not willing to negotiate that. So you know, you go home, and you think how we, we need to, we need a vision cast that a little bit more, right, we need to talk about it, we need to set it up.

And I think probably the most discouraging part was, I know, this is the habit we’ve created, or that has been created in that friend group. And so I started the small group setting on the small group and set it up by saying, hey, let’s remember who we are and how we treat people in this space. And a couple of times gently throughout. So like I did all the things, you know, it was just that the expectations, when they miss the expectations, you remind them of the expectations and then as like, and we’re done.

Brian Lawson:  06:00

Well, and we remember to like middle school students, especially when things get serious, they get uncomfortable real quick, oftentimes, and then what they don’t know how else to respond, right? Other than Yeah, just direct attention to somebody else. So no one will notice that I’m uncomfortable, or uncertain about how to respond to this. Yeah.

Kirsten Knox:  06:18

I’m like, part of it’s very age appropriate. Yeah. And then it’s almost like that’s what gets attention. Right. So now, students who typically don’t do that are now doing that, because that has become the cool thing. And then like, we’re gonna break this habit. Yeah. Where this is, you know, there’s a time to tease and poke around. But there’s a time when someone shares that. We’re gonna honor that that’s courageous to share something about your life.

Brian Lawson:  06:43

Yeah. So, okay, well, we’re gonna use you as the guinea pig here, Kristen.

Kirsten Knox:  06:48

Here we go.

Brian Lawson:  06:49

So you had a discouraging night? Last night, right. So it’s Tuesday when we’re recording this. So yeah, discouraging last night? Probably not feeling great about it this morning, I would imagine. So how do you or what patterns have you developed over the years that help you walk after the discouragement right, that help you move forward through it in a healthier, good way? Or maybe you’ve done some habits that were not healthy? You’re getting over it? You know, but what’s like, what does Krsiten do today or tomorrow? to try to recalibrate, if you will.

Kirsten Knox:  07:28

Two things, one, I talked to a couple of my volunteers last night, like we stood in the parking lot and dissected it, right, like talked about what we want it to look like how we’re gonna, so we strategized and remembered. This is part of the age, right? We want to be a place where they practice relationships, that is messy. So this self talk of really understanding where they are, and what is happening is the first thing. And then this morning, I talked to another friend, we walked in the morning, so we were talking and talking about ministry, and she’s in ministry.

So that was helpful, like someone who got it. So those are two things. And sleep. Because I am an introvert. So after a program night, that’s a lot of people in and I’m tired. I also know when I’m tired, I see things differently. So like a good night’s rest, will also help me see this even like not be put it in perspective of listen, if this was, if this was what we’re dealing with, it’s a good problem. I mean, in the sense of, it’s not the worst thing, but that was our so talking to people, sleeping, and then today having a strategy. So I’m already a format, like in my head, this is what we’re going to do. This is the game plan. I told my friend this morning, I was like, listen, we’re gonna break this habit, because I’m gonna tell you, I’m gonna win. You know, like, put it in the competition, right? And then I’m gonna win this, because I’ll fight for this.

Brian Lawson:  08:55

Which you experience, and you know how to develop the strategies and how you’re going to, you know, you’re going to, say defeat this discouragement or defeat this attitude in the group that has created this. But I think for somebody who’s new in ministry, this probably highlights the importance of having some sort of mentor, or somebody you can talk to who maybe has been doing this for a while, because you may not know what to do. You may not know how to defeat it in your words, or to, you know, to put this in its place, essentially. So you’re, that’s probably one of the one of the good things about experiences, you’ve got that to lean on.

Kirsten Knox:  09:31

Yeah, that community or people who get it has always been very important for me, and I think to process it and talk through it. So yes, I would say find someone in ministry who has been doing it for a while and find whether that’s a formal we call them a mentor. If it’s something we go to lunch, you know, somewhat on the regular but being able to do that I think is so valuable, and that is helpful to be able to do.

Brian Lawson:  09:58

A question In for you, Kirsten, that I was thinking about as you were talking, is your discouragement directed towards what’s happening in the program? Or does it ever turn towards yourself? Like, does it always stay? I’m discouraged by what’s happening outside of me? Or is it ever turned to well, now I’m not sure if I can do this.

Kirsten Knox:  10:19

I think it depends on what it is. Okay. I think like the other narrative that if I’m not careful is, What haven’t you done? Well, is this what you’re experiencing? Like, how do you need to lead better? How do you need to empower yourself better so that gets turned on me like, and I think there are some things when I get discouraged that I do sometimes wonder if I probably do I want to do this. Do I still want to do this? Like, yeah, it takes a lot of energy in for me, it’s not my main job, right? It’s a side job. So you’re like, do I want to do this? I think that’s probably the other piece. But what I recognize more than anything, is it. The reason it bothers me so much is because it’s a core value, like my core value is I want students to show up and be themselves. And that being good enough.

Brian Lawson:  11:12

Yep.

Kirsten Knox:  11:13

Well, I think also, when there’s discouragement, I tried to process what is the root of what’s going on inside of me and try to be curious in that space, that is causing discouragement. And sometimes I was like, a little disproportionate to what’s happening. And oftentimes, that’s for me, because that means it has crossed like there’s a core value there.

Brian Lawson:  11:32

Yeah. Yeah. I think I think for me, my discouragement often turned inwards, not necessarily outward. So like it was it was propelled by or began by something outward, or something in the ministry, something in a person’s life, something we’re lacking or not going well, or, I mean, I guess at times I envisioned it being different than it actually was. But then it quickly turned inward for me as in like, Am I still capable? Like, am I still capable? To speak to young people in a way that they connect with? Right that, um, do I still know enough about their culture? Or, you know, am I patient enough for this still? Or, like, am I empathetic enough still for this, like, I just don’t want to be like, because usually when I get discouraged I’m like, I just don’t want to care. I just want to shut down. And I don’t want to care. And I just want to be this because sometimes I just want to be in a bad mood, like, I just want to be cranky.

Kirsten Knox:  12:33

And work myself out of these feelings.

Brian Lawson:  12:36

Right? Yeah. Like, I just want to sit here for a little bit. And so I just that’s why I was curious if yours was really external or internal, I think mine turns more internal than external. And, and so in my head, oftentimes, I would write my resignation letter, even though I didn’t actually ever write it or turn it in. But in my head for a little bit, I thought about it. But I think what was helpful to me is a lot of reflection afterwards. About, like, where did this come from? You know, like, Did this come from the actions of a person? Did this come from an environment that I set up that I can adjust? I mean, kind of what you’re talking about, you’re gonna adjust this small group environment, which will then minimize the discouragement you face later down the road as they make that adjustment, right? Is there something that I’ve have set up or allowed to happen?

That has caused this? You know, so like, I tried to trace down? Like, what’s the root of it? Like, what’s the source of this? Not because I can stop it all the time. But maybe I can reduce the number of times that I hit that wall. The other thing is, oftentimes, have I slept well recently? Have I ate well? Am I like doing anything? Exercise related? Am I doing anything for myself? And all those are fair questions. I think a lot of times when discouragement hit, I would probably say to one of those I’m not doing very well, maybe more than one of those, I’m probably not doing very well. And I always schedule my easy work on the day after my programming. Like my work, I like kind of enjoy it or doesn’t require a lot of me is always the day after my main programming, because I know I’m probably going to walk in the day after. Not super excited for what’s next. Unless we had a great night. Right? Unless we had a great night

Kirsten Knox:  14:21

Right. You’re like, yes, yeah, I had a boss. When I first started ministry, and he said every week every Monday I want to quit.

Brian Lawson:  14:29

Yeah.

Kirsten Knox:  14:30

And I like, I was like, I think that just gave freedom. And that’s like, I almost normalized it because my first full time ministry job, and I was the associate youth pastor, and that’s what he would say, every Monday, I want to quit my job. And I was like, oh, so I’m not alone. Like this is normal in that space. But I think reflecting is important. Also being able, right. It’s a symptom sometimes of other things that is happening. I would say I tend not to have a short fuse.

So when my fuse feels shorter, that’s that same indication for me, Brian, there’s something in my life. Usually, for me, it means I’m not spending enough time alone time. Yeah, that there is something that is causing my fuse to be short. So therefore I’m a lot easier, it’s a lot easier to be discouraged. Yeah, the night typically would be on any other night. So you’re like, I’m another night I may not feel at all be like, here’s where we are. This is what we’re gonna do about it. Where am I be at night that I walk away pretty discouraged.

Brian Lawson:  15:30

Yeah, that was a gift. You know, like, even if even if you don’t feel that you want to quit every Monday or every Thursday or whatever, it’s a gift to have somebody say to you, that’s I feel this on a regular basis. Because I don’t think I had anybody tell me that ever, like ever, for at least for a really long time that I know, other people felt the same way. So there was always this sort of little bit of guilt that I’m like, Wow, gosh, it was exhausting. I don’t know if I want to keep doing this. And I just didn’t tell anybody for a really long time. And I wonder how many people who listen to this. Maybe you’re on the same place? You know, maybe they find themselves discouraged at different times. And they’ve not said it out loud.

Kirsten Knox:  16:10

Yes, I think there’s so much that we feel like we can’t say because it’s not right. Yeah, feel that way. Or to be that way, particularly when we’re a ministry. There’s a lot of pressure we put on ourselves as leaders, versus normalizing those things and say, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. This is hard.

Brian Lawson:  16:28

Because you know, you’re doing something for Jesus. So you’ve got to be excited all the time. And it’s got to be great. And you gotta love it all the time. And yet, we know that’s not true.

Kirsten Knox:  16:37

It’s just not real. Like, that’s just not. That’s not real.

Brian Lawson:  16:42

Yeah.

Kirsten Knox:  16:44

Yeah, discouragement is part of the game, I think. And I would say then, then what do you like for me? Then I start to process what what for me and manage ministry brings life and is energizing. And can I put some of that in my day? Yeah. So like later this week? I’m doing breakfast with one of our volunteers. And that is what that will energize me. Yeah. So I’m, like, put some things this next week that does that. So that helps. That helps me to move through that discouragement.

Brian Lawson:  17:14

Yeah, I have a very similar thing that I would meet, oftentimes with the network of, you know, youth or children’s people in the area. And they will often meet scheduled for Thursdays. Now, I was leading that. So I didn’t choose Thursday. But I certainly didn’t push back and they wanted to do Thursday, I was like, Yeah, Thursday is great, because I’m usually going to come in, you’re kind of cranky, and you’re gonna make me not so cranky.

Let’s do this. And so that was always helpful for me, you know, that was like, once a month, was always super energizing for me. And even if I didn’t have anything to contribute to the conversation, to just hear other people’s conversation was meaningful to me. So like, I’m wondering, for the person who’s, you know, maybe facing discouragement now, maybe it’s from one of one meeting, or maybe it’s a season. That’s been discouraging.

So I wonder if they’ve taken time to trace? You know, Can you trace back where this is coming from? You know, are there triggers that you’ve got that make you more discouraged than other times? And what also gives you life like you were mentioning here, so like, what things can you do? That is life giving to you and affirming? And then of course, this also goes back to the whole, you know, can you remember that you are cared by your loved and cared for by Jesus, regardless of ministry? I mean, can you remember that? will be some things that I would think so?

Kirsten Knox:  18:42

Yeah, I think all those things are good things, find people who get it in ministry, and put them in your life. I’m like, I think that’s fuel to us.

Brian Lawson:  18:51

Yep. So very brief statement here, friends is this, if you’re discouraged, you’re not alone. All of us feel it at some level of different seasons in different ways. Even if no one said, even if people don’t say it. And if you feel like you want to quit the day after your programming, you’re, you’re not alone. Lots of us feel it.

Brian Lawson:  19:12

Join the club, yeah. So now you’re not alone. But but do think about some steps you could take afterwards, to help both recover from the discouragement. I don’t know if recover is the right word, move past move through the discouragement and also maybe recognize where it’s coming from so that maybe you can minimize it in the future. So

Kirsten Knox:  19:12

Join the club.

Kirsten Knox:  19:31

Yeah. Stay curious.

Brian Lawson:  19:32

Yeah. All right. I think that’s all we have for your friends. As always, I hope we helped you make sense of this thing we call ministry.

VBS Tips for First Timers

VBS Tips for First Timers

Love it or loathe it, Vacation Bible School looms on our advance planning calendar.


Maybe you’re new to ministry altogether. Perhaps you’re one of the first timers at the VBS helm, desperate for tips, and don’t even know where to begin. At some churches, VBS is a major outreach event, and for others, it’s a simple fun addition to the young people’s ministry schedule.

Regardless of where your church is on that spectrum, summer will careen towards us faster than we want to admit. If you’re the ministry staff person or volunteer leader who’ll be taking on this incredible opportunity of VBS as a first timer, let’s look at some tips.

VBS First Timers Tip #1: Where’s Your Team?

If you’re new to this role, you might want to jump in and prove yourself as super human, thinking you can get this task done on your own. Look, there’s lots of room for differences of opinion in ministry. But, can I just unequivocally tell you that attempting VBS solo is a massive mistake? You physically, spiritually, and logistically cannot be in more than one place at a time. Gather your trusty crew and sit down with them.

You might need to plan the when/where of your VBS according to the team’s availability. For instance, there could be more volunteers free at night, rather than during a weekday morning. Don’t have a crew? Well, don’t just depend on a bulletin blurb to bring them running. Personal request is the number one way to increase the team. Be looking now for people who are great at décor, and folks who have cheerful hospitality pouring out of them. Find the musicians, the teachers, the members of the craft circle – cast a wide net! If they haven’t served at VBS, they’re totally missing out.

They don’t even have to love spending time with children. There’s always a task that can be done beforehand or behind the scenes. And don’t forget to include the teens of your church – their creativity and energy will be a huge boost for your VBS squad.

VBS First Timers Tip #2: What’s Your Theme?

Many publishing houses are producing incredible packaged Vacation Bible School kits. There are the big name, all-inclusive ones that it seems like everyone in town is using. Lately, there are newer companies who are bringing new methods and ideas to the table. An additional consideration: some cost hundreds just for the basic kit, and others are completely free. Or, you and your team might have a flood of inspiration and want to create your own entirely!

To help choose, I highly recommend asking your peers what’s worked for them, as well as spending time personally researching the theological concepts that are presented. Don’t forget, you can take the building blocks of a packaged set and adapt it for your own context, needs, and theological traditions. Having your team work on this choice with you can help keep momentum and excitement going as your plans take shape.

VBS First Timers Tip #3: How Much Green?

Ok, so you caught me trying to be clever and rhyming my tips for VBS First Timers. I’m talking about how each church has its own budget, which for Vacation Bible School might be $0, might be $500, or it might be $50,000. Some churches have historically charged a fee to attend, and others do it for free. Having spent most of my years in ministry working with next to no funds available for VBS, I promise it can be done, and done well, with very little money. We also never charged participants a fee.

Having budget information helps you determine just how much work you can outsource (i.e., purchasing the merch, craft kits, décor, lesson materials, etc. from the publisher) versus how much you’ll have to creatively work on with the team. Be sure you know what you’re working with before you place that giant and expensive order full of flashy stuff. If you’re short on funds, make a master list of what you need, and what you think would be nice to have. Throw open every closet door in the building to hunt for materials. (Why does every church seem to have storage to explore?) Then, make specific requests to your congregation to gather the rest.

And Tip #4: What Does Your VBS Mean?

Individually, and as a team, spend some time in thought about why your ministry is doing Vacation Bible School. Are you hoping to reach new people in your community? Is the primary purpose to remind the young people who come about Jesus’ love for them? Will VBS be a chance to serve families in your area, providing them with a safe, loving, and fun experience to bring their children to in the summer time? It might be all those things! Remembering the purpose of your event helps keep your expectations reasonable, and gives you goals to shoot for. Also, this clarifies the way you’ll communicate information to the people you want to come.

As a member of the VBS First Timers club, these tips may not be something you’ve considered. Don’t be afraid as a first timer leading Vacation Bible School. Sure, by the end of the week you’ll be exhausted; yes, the songs will get stuck in your head for months; sure, you might end up eating “Lydia’s purple cloth” made out of dried fruit for dinner… but it’s also an exhilarating and unique chance to feel Jesus working through you as you share God’s love with kids.


Maresi Brown is the Administrative & Interview Specialist for Youth Ministry Institute. She spent nearly 20 years in ministry to young people and families at a United Methodist Church. Maresi is an avid knitter and resides in St. Petersburg, FL, with her husband, 3 kids, and 2 dogs. You can connect with Maresi at the social media below.

Mistakes We Make With Student Leaders

Mistakes We Make With Student Leaders

How often do we overlook the potential of young people?


Do you know what I mean?

It can be easy to choose the loudest, most popular, or even the ones with the most biblical responses in small group. Yet, if we make this mistake and only go with these types of young people as student leaders, you may miss out on some of the most gifted young people in your ministry.

After over 35 years in ministry, I am currently a volunteer youth minister for a new church start. We have existed for under two years, have around 12 youth, and had our second retreat recently. Three students, two eighth graders, and one seventh grader led the entire programming for the retreat. Did the retreat they led go perfectly? Let’s just say that I’ve learned that perfect is a matter of heart.

I have to ask myself, am I willing to equip them to lead their way or am I so prideful that I believe there is only my way?

Are you making these mistakes when seeing potential in student leaders?

Mistake We Make #1: Only seeing the obvious ones.

One of the three students in my leadership team, an eighth grader, is an apparent leader. She is the pastor’s daughter and responds readily during Bible study. She is insightful, volunteers to read Scripture, and shares her ideas and dreams for the ministry with me. Many of us would choose her right away to serve as a leader in ministry.

You may have these types of people in your ministry. In fact, you’ve probably already had a few names and faces come to mind.

Mistake We Make #2: Overlooking the not-so-obvious ones.

Thinking about my team, the other two students could easily have been overlooked as unlikely leaders. They tend to be quiet, shy in new situations, and do not volunteer unless called upon. Often these two will sit in the corner so they will not be misconstrued as needing attention. They might be called introverts. What if we make mistakes and don’t see these types of teens as student leaders?

I could have easily overlooked these two. But the Spirit urged me to invite them to lead. God pointed out to me in each of these three youth an ability, a willingness, and a commitment to lead. The truth is that the obvious and the not-so-obvious ones can and should lead.

Mistake We Make #3: Holding onto control.

Going into this, did I have doubts? Of course!

It is never easy to hand over control. But before this retreat, I spent time teaching and training them. And through this, these three students have inspired the new sixth graders. We already have sixth graders making statements like, “when I lead next year.”

Having young people as leaders in your youth or children’s ministry means we must first be willing to look at the obvious and the not-as-obvious young people. Who is the person or people that you may be overlooking?

In the meantime, pray for your future student leaders’ connection to the Spirit. Pray that the Lord will use you and your team to equip and support them. Pray that the Holy Spirit will help you to trust God!


Kathy Rexroad is the Core Competencies Assessment Manager and Content Specialist as well as a coach for the Youth Ministry Institute. She obtained a Bachelor of Science degree in nursing in 1975 from West Virginia University. While serving as volunteer nursery coordinator at an Orlando area church, Kathy felt God’s call into a life of ministry. While serving for over 25 years at that church, she “grew up” with the children she served and became their youth minister. In December 2010, Kathy retired from paid local church ministry, and resides in Georgia where she can enjoy her 4 grandchildren. 

Why You Can’t Reach Parents

Why Can't You Reach Parents

What would our ministry look like if we could truly partner with parents in the way that we would like? What would it look like to truly reach parents?

There are a lot of different pieces to the puzzle that is youth ministry, but the parent piece is one that is both confusing and frustrating to a lot of us. How do we get parents to fit into our ministry like we want them to? 

Some of us might settle for figuring out how to get parents to open our emails. While that would be a good start, we can do better. We have to change how we think about and view parents. 

Here are a few reasons why you may not be able to reach parents through your ministry right now. 

You only want parents to serve your ministry.

Youth pastors love the phrase “partnering with parents.” But what do we mean when we say that? If we were to really get into specifics, it would mostly include things like getting parents to chaperone events, financially support the youth ministry or just bring their kids to youth group more than once a month. 

And, I get it. You need parents to support your ministry. But parents are never going to have sustained enthusiasm about your ministry if you are only concerned with ways that they can help you pull off your next event. Giving parents opportunities to serve your ministry is not going to be enough to reach them. 

You’ve only built half of a bridge. 

When you started serving in youth ministry, your thought may have been that if you build a bridge half-way to the parents, they would build the other half. Then you would have this beautiful, thriving ministry relationship, and all your problems would be solved. That is reasonable, right? Halfway is pretty good. 

Parents are generally drowning in student homework, soccer practice, errands, their careers, birthday parties, and laundry. They honestly do not have time or the emotional energy to build the other half of your bridge. It’s not because they are not interested in supporting your ministry. Most of them are just too busy and tired. 

If you want your ministry to reach parents, you are going to have to build the entire bridge. I know that sounds difficult and maybe even a bit unfair, but doing everything you can on your end is going to free parents up to devote themselves to be the parent. 

Parents don’t know they need you yet. 

Parents may not always see the value in what you do in your ministry. But, if their teen is going through something really tough and will not talk to them about it, they will be very grateful that you are in their teenager’s life. In a time of crisis, parents tend to naturally move toward other adults who love their children. 

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If you have been consistently making the effort to invest in their family, not just their teen, then it is going to be a lot easier for parents to trust you. And since you have built the whole bridge between your ministry and their family, not just half of it, they can get to you quickly and easily. You may not feel like the things you are doing right now are having an impact. But, you are building a relationship that parents will need when the time comes. 

So how do you reach parents? 

Here are a few practical ways to reach out to parents: 

Moments

When a student does something her parent would be proud of, send a short text or email to the parent and let them know. Or, here’s another one:  The next time you think to yourself, “____________ is amazing. I love the way she ____________”, ask yourself if you have ever told her parents. Parents are constantly struggling with their teenagers at home. It goes a long way when another adult lets them know they have a great kid and they are a good parent. 

Milestones

Any time there is something significant going on in the life of a student, it is probably impacting the parents. So reach out to parents in times like the beginning of the school year, during testing, enrolling in a new school, during a big sports tournament, after a big performance in some extra-curricular activity, etc. Just a short email or text to let them know you saw that awesome performance or are praying for their new season can go a long way. 

Matchmaker

You cannot give parents all the answers to their teens’ problems. But there is probably another parent in your church who has previously dealt with the situation. Do what you can to connect them to each other. They will minister to one another and it will require very little time from you. 

Resources

Spend some time finding good resources to help parents raise a middle or high school student. Whenever you find articles, books, speakers, share them with parents. 

Service Opportunities

Create ways for students and parents to serve together inside and outside of your church. This gives them opportunities to have conversations about spiritual things. They also observe active faith in one another. 

Scheduling

Before you do your schedule of events, think through how it would impact the typical family in your church. Bring to mind things like frequency, length, cost, time of day/week, etc. All of these things will impact the schedules of families in your church. 

As you move forward in ministry, keep in mind: parents are not your enemy. They are by far the biggest influencer in the lives of the students that you nurture and about whom you care. Love parents well. Because when parents win, everyone wins.


Skylar Jones serves as Youth and Family Minister at St. Barnabas Episcopal Church in DeLand, FL. He has worked in many different capacities since he began serving the church nearly 20 years ago. Skylar is married and has a son. He met his wife at Berry College, in Rome, GA, where he graduated with a bachelor’s degree in English. He enjoys sports, music, long walks on the beach, and anything made by Reese’s. Click the social links below to engage with Skylar.


Compassion Fatigue – Recognize the Signs

You love this job.


You love the people with whom you get to work, and you love the Lord! So why do you feel like you cannot muster the empathy and sympathy to care as deeply as you should right now? You’re exhausted. I don’t mean sleep-deprived, which is completely possible, but you’ve found that your compassion is exhausted. Can you recognize the signs?

“Compassion Fatigue is a condition characterized by emotional and physical exhaustion leading to a diminished ability to empathize or feel compassion for others.”

source

Signs and symptoms of Compassion Fatigue can mirror Depression and/or PTSD and can include any of the following: Feeling helpless, hopeless, or powerless; irritability; feeling angry, sad, or numb; feeling detached; and/or experiencing a decreased pleasure in usual activities.

You may be thinking, “Maybe I am just burned out. That seems more likely.”

How do we know the difference between Compassion Fatigue and Burnout?

According to Barbara Rubel at the Griefwork Center, Inc., here is how you can tell the difference between Compassion Fatigue and Burnout:
Burnout is typically situational, and only attributed to a stressful work environment; Compassion Fatigue is the result of the impact of helping others, most typically through their trauma. So, could you possibly be experiencing both, especially during a prolonged pandemic? Yes!

This is your reminder to be gentle with yourself and those around you! Many who are in the helping profession or in ministry are deeply feeling the burdens and trauma of others, and as a result you are so good at this job! But you must care for yourself before you can care for others – think of the oxygen mask on the airplane analogy for instance – who do you place the oxygen mask on first? YOU!

Some strategies to combat Compassion Fatigue:

Pay attention to when you feel the most fatigued. What you have you been doing at work prior to this feeling? Begin to identify what drains your battery so that you can then strategize how and when to complete those tasks. This may help you give your all to them without depleting your compassion bank.

Journal about the good, bad, and ugly. Journaling is a safe, effective way to articulate all your feelings and frustrations and to get them out of your head. And you don’t have to worry about how you say something or how it will be received. Be unfiltered!

Take vacation or a day off if you can! Stepping away from the everyday grind can really help you restore your energy and excitement for your work. You started this job for a reason – try to remember what that is!

Schedule time for you. Ministry is a 24/7 calling, but you cannot function for long in that way. Be sure to schedule time that you are not working, not on your phone or social media, and doing things that are life-giving and restorative to you.

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Ask for Help! Tell a safe person, like a coach, friend or counselor, who is not a co-worker, how you are feeling. Ask them to help you see the bigger picture and greater good of the work you are doing. Ask them to keep you accountable in taking time out for yourself.

Actively and intentionally remind yourself of the good you are doing in this job and in this world!

And here’s what might be the hardest strategy:

Set Boundaries for your Compassion. Before there were cell phones and social media, we only knew about bad things happening to people if we watched/read the news, or the situation was happening inside of our family or social circle. We now have access to everyone’s hurts all the time via social media – we see the devastating stories of strangers who die too young from cancer or who have suffered catastrophic loss and need help. It is not wrong to feel for all these people and situations, or to even respond with help; but if you don’t know the person or the people surrounding that person, but sure to set boundaries for your compassion and empathy. Don’t spend all your energy on strangers when you know you need to pour more of yourself into your family, friends, and the people with whom you work every day.

The great news is that you can combat Compassion Fatigue and get back to feeling excited about your calling – but you must actively work towards this! Remember to be gentle with yourself and take time to restore your energy. Set boundaries for yourself and others and be intentional in your everyday actions. This world needs you, especially now!


YMI blog author and music therapist Mallory Even

Mallory Even, LPMT, MT-BC, is a Board-Certified and Licensed Professional Music Therapist. She earned her degree in Music Therapy at The Florida State University, and has owned her private practice, Metro Music Therapy, which is based in Peachtree Corners, GA (NE Atlanta), for over 12 years. Mallory has a heart for using music to serve others, both professionally and personally, and has been a worship leader at various churches in Florida and Georgia throughout the last 20 years.


You can contact Mallory by sending her an email.


Lead Well This Year

Leading Well in 2023

We are in another year of ministry. And whether this is your first, fifth, fifteenth, or fiftieth, each year can bring a different challenge. To help you lead well this year, here are a few ideas to remember as you seek to make Christ known in 2023.


Learn and understand the needs of your group.

Understanding the unique needs of each individual and their family within the ministry is essential to leading well this year. By understanding their personalities, struggles, and interests, you can tailor your teaching, studies, and events in a more meaningful way. When we, as leaders, lead in a way that meets the needs of those we serve, we will find that the people in ministry are more receptive and engaged.

Be a student of cultural trends.

Ask loads of questions about the latest trending song, dance, or other social media trends. For some of us, this may get frustrating – even downright annoying. But taking time to stay aware of these trends helps us relate better with young people. My experience has also shown that asking questions about the latest trends will strengthen your relationship with young people. 

Be consistent and fair.

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The quickest way to lose trust is to act inconsistently and unfairly. Leadership often involves controlling emotions in challenging situations. A little work ahead of time can help us in these difficult moments.

As leaders, we should strive to maintain accountability within the ministry by setting clear expectations and providing consistent follow-through when those expectations are not met. Clear expectations for volunteers, students, student leaders, and ourselves will help you keep a consistent and fair environment. This type of culture is essential in creating trusting relationships with young people and their families.

Remain prayerful.

Lastly, to lead well this year and into the future, you must work to deepen your relationship with Jesus through prayer. You know ministry can be challenging. Regularly praying for wisdom and strength will help you think more clearly when facing difficult decisions and enable you to focus on what is most important. And most of all, living into your identity as a child of God is your first role as a leader.


Rev. Brian Lawson is the Director of Leadership Development and Client Services for YMI and has served in youth ministry since 2004. He also serves as a pastor in the Florida Conference of the UMC. Brian holds a Master of Ministry with a focus in organizational culture, team-based leadership, change, conflict, and peacemaking from Warner University. In addition to his degrees from Warner, he studied Christian Education at Asbury Theological Seminary. Click the social links below to engage with Brian.